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type of vessel into existence the amount of water ballast that can be carried has been largely increased until on a vessel like the Gary it amounts to about 8,000 tons and puts her down to a draught which makes the ship perfectly safe under all conditions. The United States Steel Corporation has just placed an order for two ships 600 ft. over all length, 58 ft. beam and 32 ft. deep, to come out next year. To reduce as much as possible the excess buoyancy forward in these vessels, the pe eS HIG, 12... VICTORY. forward hatch has been moved close to the forecastle and the third hatch omitted, the. winches being placed on the deck in the space which that hatch would otherwise occupy, thereby carrying the ore body further towards the bow. DISCUSSION ON MR. BABCOCK'S PAPER. Prof. H. C. Sadler: I think Mr. Babcock has raised some very interesting points with reference to lake steam- ers. What most struck me was, first the ratio of the length to the depth of these vessels. In the case of the Gary 17.7 and of the Victor 16 only. This, of course is the outcome of the difficulties to be encountered, the limit- FIG. 13. ELBERT H: GARY: ed draught to which these vessels can be allowed owing to the shallowness of the channels and the difficulties of the service. Mr. Babcock mentioned a wave 200 ft. long and 20 ft. high as about the most severe wave these vessels are likely to meet. I do not know if any definite measure- ments of these lengths and heights of waves have been made, but it seems to me that that wave is a little too short. The maximum bending moment as developed in this condition is naturally, as one would expect, rather low, the factor one seventy-seventh being about one-half or one-third of what might be expected for ordinary ves- sels of the same size of the sea-going vessels. It was very interesting to see that Mr. Babcock had added a set of curves for the bending moment for the deep sea condi- tions so we can get direct comparisons. I may say that I have a similar set of calculations under way for different . heights of waves and shall be pleased to submit them at a later period. Another point that is raised in this paper is the question of the regulations of loading of lake ves- sels. That is a question that has come up recently and I think Mr. Babcock hits the nail on the head when he says that it is the usage of carrying the greater portion of the ballast at the stern leaving the bow light, and with reference to carrying the greater portion of the load in the middle of the vessel. This is good practice but leaving the light condition forward is not to be countenanced. That this 'is done with the lake vessels shows I think that an intelligent set of rules for loading as well as unloading would be an advantage to the shippers. No doubt there would be some objections to that on the part of ship owners, but no doubt they would come to that if legisla- TAE Marine REVIEW 27 tion were intelligently made. There is also another point on which we need a certain amount of legislation and that is in the larger amount of ballast they should carry in the light condition. This question has been taken up in connection with deep sea vessels within the last few years by the Admiralty of Great Britain which recognizes that the light condition of the vessels is very important so far as Ssea-going purposes are concerned. On the Great Lakes where the tendency is to load the vessels down at the stern and leave the bow out of water, there is no doubt that under certain conditions these vessels would be very severely strained. There is another point also which I think might be investigated and that is the strain upon these vessels in the inclined condition. These vessels, as is generally known, roll rather heavily and I think it will be found that in the inclined position the strains are more severe than in the upright. Mr. Babcock has said that definite calculations cannot be made under the conditions FIG. 14. ELBERT H. GARY. . of too much ore being taken out in one place before the machinery is moved. I do not think that presents any great difficulty. If we give a set of conditions of a vessel loading in a certain way, it would not be a very difficult matter to determine what would happen to the vessel if the ore was taken out, or the bulk of it, in a certain part of the vessel's length. I think it would be very interesting if those calculations were made. Capt. William Hovgaard: I know very little about lake steamers, and I am glad to get so much interesting infor- mation as this paper gives us about this matter. Mr. Babcock mentioned the new methods of loading and un- loading these steamers by self-filling buckets. I think it is extremely interesting, and I suggest if possible a dia- gram or sketch of these buckets be added to the paper. As regards the wave length, I think like Prof. Sadler, 200- - ft. is rather short. I have not been upon the Great Lakes, but upon other bodies of water not as great I have ob- served waves 200-ft. long several times, and I think it would easily come to that on the lakes, for that reason. Like Prof. Sadler I think that it would add considerably to the interest of the paper if Mr. Babcock would give us the maximum stress in addition to the bending moment. Of course the bending moment may be very interesting in ships which are so alike, so similar, but when we come to comparing ships of different construction and different bending moments it does not give us a means of com- parison. And therefore I think it would add considerathy