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COAL AWAITING LAKE SHIPMENT AT THE TOLEDO & OHIO CENTRAL, YARDS, TOLEDO. ship to ship which is necessary to reach these ports results in damage to the machinery, and the delays entailed are exceed- ing costly. "If we could have direct lines, we could easily build up a much larger: trade," said Mro Harlowe.. "With an American ship with American officers, there would be less delay and much less breakage. We already have evidence of this, for on the Pacific we have less trouble, where the American railroad companies are directly interested in the lines." Capt. David Vance said he thought a large majority of the people would favor government .aid, provided it could be done in a fair and reasonable manner. In response to a ques- tion of Congressman Minor of Wisconsin, a member of the commission, he declared that the large freighters, such as ply on the lakes, if given the advantage of quick loading and un- loading, such as lake ports give, would reduce ocean carrying charges. E. A. Uhrig told of the saving of time by modern unloading devices and said that American soft coal companies now are considering a plan to install these devices at foreign ports, to prevent delays. George H. D. Johnson opposed subsidies, and thought foreign nations might be willing to abrogate all such bounties by international agreement. Capt. H. M. Merryman told of efforts made by over 200 New York and Philadelphia vesselmen in 1874 to obtain a government subsidy, but de- clared that they failed. "A direct subsidy is the only thing which can save our shipping," he declared. "The discriminating duty plan would fail because it would not save the cotton trade, and because it would only give a bounty on exports. Many ships make the westbound trip in ballast, and they would get no benefit from this plan." E. T. Wheelock favored a discriminating duty policy with subsidies and mail bounties to lines which would not be built up by the first plan. He declared that American ship- ping is as much entitled to protection against foreign com- petition as: any. industry on land... Thomas &. Howe de- clared that the beer business needed better export facilities. "The foreign market for our breweries can not be much extended until we have better and more direct lines," he said, "T think if we had subsidized ships, or any other device which would give us more adequate shipping facilities, our breweries could sell carloads where now they sell a few casks. For the benefit of the manufacturers of the country, I would like to see direct lines everywhere. I don't look for any great increase in export business until we have a merchant marine of our own." "From a small beginning," said A. E. Snuggs, in telling ~ of the car-ferry business, "we have now a fleet of ten car ferries on Lake Michigan, with a capacity of 300 cars daily each way, and moving 100,000 cars per annum. American export business is handicapped by the inability of our ex- ' porters to make proper contracts for shipping, after the product has reached the seaboard. We have devoted all of our energies to developing fast freights on land, but when we reach the ocean everything must take its time." "From our hearings so far, it is safe to say that the public opposes direct subsidy legislation," said Senator Gallinger after the hearing. "There has been no opposition to the plan of extending the system of mail subsidy or subvention which already has given us a number of lines. We have received many good suggestions in our hearings on the Great Lakes, and are much encouraged by the manifestations of interest expressed by western men in the building up of the American merchant marine." Senator Quarles and Congressmen Stafford and Otjen of Wisconsin took a deep interest in the session.