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58 THE MarRINE REVIEW February, 1910 Naval Architects and Marine Engineers (Continued from January issue.) EORGE W. Dickie's paper on "The Foreign Trade Mer- chant Mar:ne of the United States--Can it be Revived?" was then read by W. M. McFarland Dickie. This paper will be found in the December issue. President-elect Taylor said that when Mr. Dickie's paper came before the council for consideration he opposed its presentation to the society on the ground that it was not altogether germane to the objects of the society, but con- sidering the importance of the general question he was glad that he had been overruled. Mr. McFarland's ab- stract of the paper was well done, bringing out all the salient features in very few words and with fine sym- pathy for the subject. in the absence of Mr. Discussion of Mr. Dickie's Paper. -W. M. McFarland (communicated): I feel that the thanks of this society are due to Mr. Dickie for his admira- ble paper, which I am sure contains much information which is new to the majority of us. 1 feel, too, that our society is probably the most appro- priate unofficial body 'before which this subject of a ship subsidy can be discussed. The bulk of our members being interested in ship building have a vital interest in the subject and those members who are ship owners are interested from that side. Cer- tainly no other body has the informa- tion and the great personal interest which are calculated to bring about a discussion of the highest value. Our society has already committed itself favorably to the general policy of ship subsidies so that I take it the object of the discussion today should be rather as to details than as to the general policy, on which our views can hardly have changed in the last few years. When it comes to dis- cussing details, there will, of course, be a great variety of opinions as Mr. Dickie seems to have anticipated in the closing paragraph of his paper. It really seems to me that best re- sults would be obtained, if we do not rest satisfied with a discussion to be spread upon the minutes, but rather if we appoint a strong committee, representing both the ship owners and the ship builders, with instruction to consider the subject carefully, form- ulate the reasons which would be likely to appeal to Congress for a subsidy and then be authorized to appear before the committees of con- gress as representing our society. To Formulate Reasons, I will say at once that, as my work in recent years has not kept me in as close touch with ship building as most of the rest of you, I am not as well posted on the literature of the subject as I would like to be, but with this explanation I would say that it seems to me that the argu- ments which are usually advanced are too general and of too sentimental a character to appeal to hard headed lawmakers, who have found the budget in recent years increasing at an alarm- ing. fate. .1 think there' can, De.' no doubt that 'there aré = reasons "of a sound economic nature to favor ship subsidies, and it seems to me _ that this would be one of the advantages to come from the appointment of a committee in that they would have time to formulate these reasons and puc them in convincing shape. Tt seemis..very hard' to understand why a Congress which has committed itself so strongly to protection should be unwilling to give ship building and ship owning a share in that protec- tion. It is, of course, impossible to do it in the same way, but it has often seemed to me that the fairest way in which protection could be giv- en to an industry would be in the form of a subsidy rather than by the usual method of duties; because it would then be known exactly how much assistance was being given. I have heard it alleged that this is the real objection to a subsidy because of the disclosure of its real cost. Differs From Mr. Dickie. With all due respect for Dickie's excéllent. judgment, I hardly agree with the program which he lays out and I know, from dis- cussions which I have had with.other members of the society, that there will be a great many who do not agree with him. What he _ provides for is a series of mail lines. This is well enough, but coming right down to our personal interest in the matter, it seems to me that it would not help ship building a great deal and would really fail to build up the merchant marine for foreign service, which is what we all want to see. Unless I am greatly mistaken, the fast mail steamers constitute only a small percentage of the carrying ton- nage of the world. If we are really Mr. Can in earnest in our effort to build up a merchant marine, we must strive for a plan which will do much more than fly the flag on a few fine mail steam. ers. It. also.,.seems, to?me that the qe sumption that these, American ships are to be manned by crews which are 90 per cent foreign will never do. {It is absurd to object to the foreign colliers which went around the world with our battleship fleet and then pro- vide ships which would be essentially foreign, although flying our flag. If the difficulty of operating our ships with Americans, even when aided by a subsidy is so great, then it would seem that foreign shipping is an ex- otic which cannot be acclimated. I don't think that any of us are ready to agree with such a view, and we must contemplate a plan which will give us ships that are American in personnel as well as material. Encourage Vessels of all Classes. What we need is a subsidy in such form that it will encourage the build- ing of vessels' of all classes. and freighters as well as mail steamers. Here again, such a committee as I have suggested could render most valuable service, because they could suggest or endorse a _ plan _ which would bring about that end. It is the fashion to denounce the politicians and political slates, but there: jis. one thing to. be. 'said for their methods; viz., that they teach the lesson that the man who comes forward with a carefully thought out plan has the big advantage of com- pelling the others to show wherein it is wrong, and if possible to advance a better plan. I am inclined to think in some of the efforts which have been made hitherto, this point has been lost sight of to some extent and sufficient care has not been exercised both to give the sound, economic rea- sons for a ship subsidy and to show why the method of paying them is the: best one. A Very Important Paper. I think this is sone of the "moses important papers presented at this meeting and thhope that it will have the fullest possible discussion, but, as I have already said, we want to bring all the opinions and all the in- fluence of the society to a focus, and it seems to me that this can best be done by the appointment of a_ suit- able strong committee.