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100 being favorable to this idea of gov- ernmental assistance when it comes to details. I remember at one of the banquets we held, I think in 1906, when Sen- ator Gallinger was present, and Har- vey Goulder was there and made a speech, I noticed there was a tone like this--Oh, well, what does it amount to, the amount is only $15,- 000,000 a year, and that is only 20 cents for each man, woman and child in the United States. Any one can ask for anything if it is only a little matter. You have heard the discussion here today, and you know that there is one man who is obviously a proper man to go on the committee--you all know him, he is a master of the sub- ject, and he has made a thorough study of it. I do. not believe the council will hesitate to appoint him. The council can: select the others, and with brainy men, who have a vital interest in the matter, and will see the thing is done, I think some- thing will be done. Meetings of chambers of commerce or a dinner, usually end in "hurrah boys, we all vote for it," but you do not get any- thing done. E. A. Stevens: 1. want to say a word in reference to the motion, especially in reference to what has been said as to subsidies. 'There are a large number of benighted people in this country who have objections to taxing one man for the benefit of @eother mau's business, and. if the subject is put in that way, as it has been put in the past, judging from the experience of the past, I feel justified in prophesying that no great good will come from the: undertaking. It seems to me the help this body can lend to such a matter is by giv- ing whatever demand may go direct to the. national treasury its true meaning and intent. There are many whose views can be developed in dis- cussion on this floor, and may evi- dence in that manner the views of not only the owners of the ships and the yards that build them, but of the men trained to the sea who navigate them. It seems to me that that aspect is the aspect which you want to put before Congress, to se- cure financial help. I understand that that ig the basis which is given in Japan~;for the help that. Japan has extended to its ships, -- that in order to have a. reserve of men, exclusive of the reserve of merchant ships, but a reserve of men only for the service, it will be necessary for the' empire of Japan to maintain a The Marine REVIEW training establishment which would cost much more than she now ¢xX pects to spend. It seems to me those gentlemen serving in the line of the navy would certainly be able to throw some light on the need of the service for such a trained body of men behind it, and I trust that. we will hear something on that point of the question in this discussion. Duty of Secretary of Commerce. E.: P. Stratton: £ do not want to do all the talking on the subject, but a reference has been made that this assoviation did not want to. help' in this matter. - Several years ago in this ¢bciety I made some remarks bearing upon this subject, and "i then. took exception to the fact that we had not a secertary of commerce who could speak for the commerce of this country. Today we have one, and it is clear to me that it is prop- erly the duty of this committee to address their efforts: to the secretary of commerce, who should address the House and Senate of the United States on this subject, and be the in- strument of this society obtaining the necessary legislation. F. L. Du Bosque: It seems to me that Mr. McFarland has struck the keynote, which has not been touched on before in the discussion of sub- sidies. No matter what our indi- vidual opinion may be about the prin- ciple of protection, the great majority 'of the votes of this country have de- 'cided that we shall be a protection country. We must bear that in mind in treating this subject. The result of that protection is that every in- dustry in this country pays its em- ployes a higher rate of wages than is paid to the employes of similar in- dustries in any other country. We may not be opposed to that principle, because it has produced in this coun- try a very healthful condition which is the envy of every other country. The ship owners and the ship build- ers know the reason why we cannot compete with foreign commerce, be- cause we cannot. afford to pay the employes engaged in the operation and' navigation of our vessels the prices that our protected industry de- mands that they shall be paid. While I have read almost everything I could lay my hands on, as to the reasons for a subsidy, I have yet to find any case where this particular feature has been touched on in such detail as to bring it prominently before the peo- pie, . The cole teason, to .my- mind, why we cannot operate ships, is. be- cause the rate of wages we have-to I -have not heard touched on, March, 1910° pay to the men to navigate them js so much greater than is paid to the men of other countries. Should Protect the Industry, Now, if we are confined to protec. tion, we must protect that industry as well as every other one in the country, and the only way: we can protect it is by a subsidy, if you will, by the payment of high prices for carrying the mails, or some compen- sation to the ship owner to compen- .gate him for the difference in the rates of pay that he has to pay his men. : Mr. McFarland: It has been sug- gested to me that the motion as put originally was not in what might be called a formal shape, and one of our good friends has kindly worded it for me in proper shape, and with your permission, Mr. Chairman, and _ that of the society, I will submit the fol- lowing. as the resolution before the meeting, instead of that contained in . my verbal remarks: Upbuilding Our Merchant Marine. 'Wiereas, The rehabilitation of the American merchant marine is essen- tial to our commercial prosperity and independence; therefore, BE IT RESOLVED, That a com- mittee of seven be appointed to con- 'sider this question and suggest means by which such rehabilitation may be brought about. Jacob R. Andrews: I do not want to take up the time of the society. I simply want to ask one thing which and that is all of you who have been in- terested in forwarding this porposi- tion, or attempting to get legislation, have known that the thing which has been more against the successful out- come of our efforts has been the squabbles and troubles among the people who were attempting to get legislation, and I believe that Mr. Dickie's paper and the discussion which 'has been brought out will be conducive of a great deal of good, and I think that Mr. McFarland's mo- tion is absolutely in order, and that there is no body of men in the Unit- ed States who are better qualified to urge legislation of this character up- on Congress than the members of this society. For instance, while I agree with Mr. Dickie in a_ great many of his ideas, and while I am not sufficiently familiar with the subject to know what is the best, whether it is subyention or whether, as Mt Nixon has stated, a discrimination, that I do not: pretend to know,. but